unfair advantage?

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unfair advantage?

Post  Sean Wang the Drunken Mas on Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:31 pm

Recently i was in a sparring match. My opponent was a friend of mine who was quite well trained in Jeet Kune Do. The match was going along swimmingly at first. I was landing many blows and dogged so many he couldnt hit me head on. at the end of the match though even though i was cleary going to win i was suprised. Out of no where instead of sparring he grabbed me and began to do an MMA choke out. I didnt fight back afraid that i would hurt him due to the fact we were on a black top. I tapped out incredibly confused and quite furious. He claimed he had one the match. In all my years of sparring using actual martial arts i had never been choked out with out it being considred an illegal move. I note that the fight was strictley martial arts. There was no UFC type of fighting and i really think it was just a cope out due to him trying to save face. Am i the only one that finds this an incredibly cowardly way to win a non MMA spar. im really getting tired of all of these moves finding there way into traditional martial arts. Id like to see if anyone else has the same opinion about this controversial subject.

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Re: unfair advantage?

Post  Eryn on Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:57 pm

That's a topic rife with interpretation. Since he was a Jeet Kune Do practicioner, it might be considered legal for him to do a choke-hold because JKD is all-in fighting. It sounds like no rules or bounderies were set prior to the bout, so he probably thought it was ok to throw in a grappling move. Jeet Kune Do can be especially brutal and devastating because of the nature of the art; there really are no rules to JKD. It's a dirty art, and not typically tailored for sparring. I still think a JKD practicioner should be able to adapt to rules, since adaptation is the basic essence of that art. Sounds like the guy you were sparring was being a little cheap, but I wasn't there so I can't really say. In the future, I would say you should set some rules or boundaries with your opponent next time, and if they don't follow those then they aren't worth the time of day.

I have a group of friends with whom I regularly spar, and we always set rules and boundaries to what it is we're focusing on. If we're working on striking, we'll agree not to grab/grapple, and if we're working on grappling/trapping, we won't strike. Then we sometimes include both grappling/trapping and striking (with pads) for a fully-rounded session. It helps if you spar with people you know and are comfortable with, so there is some accord within the group.

It sounds like there was some misunderstanding between you and this person you sparred. Try to establish some rules next time you meet, and if he/she consciously doesn't follow those rules then they aren't worth sparring. To me, sparring should always be about constant improvement and unity with an opponent, not blatant harm. Just my 2 cents. Have you done any grappling/trapping training before Sean?
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Re: unfair advantage?

Post  Sean Wang the Drunken Mas on Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:51 pm

the rules were set actually they were fairly simple too Basically what we had set down was no strikes in the face or groin and no UFC/MMA style of grabbing such as leg locks,arm bars,choke outs,take downs etc..i know tha JKD does use grabs but the way he went about it was MMA style hold he had learned from a friend of ours in the previous month. i have done a large amount of training with grapples using a custom style know as Farlace i learned from an incredibly well trained friend of mine. it works quite well but still the spar was really just mainley striking. as said it was on a black top so we had to be careful not to do grabs. really he was just a poor sport and didnt want to admit he was going to be beat by a pupil three years younger than him who was using drunken boxing of all styles. it saddens me to know that he really doesnt fight with honor yet he claims he does. i know this situation could be avoided if we had just done the spar on a mat but saddly martial artist in our town are looked down apon because of UFC taking over our gyms and matts. so we are forced to train in less than safe areas

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Re: unfair advantage?

Post  Eryn on Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:12 pm

That's sucks man. MMA is the big hype right now, so traditional martial arts get looked-down upon by many simply because they aren't MMA. Wish it weren't the case, but it is unfortunately. I think there is alot of validity in MMA, as it can be a very effective and practical fighting art. I also think it has its limitations, and other traditional arts can fill-in the gaps. MMA tends to ingnore trapping and Qinna (Chin-na) because of the rules of the sport; if trapping were allowed, there would be many more injuries in the UFC and WEC. Whenever something is popular, a large part of the masses will usually disregard anything else that isn't. That is what has happened to Wushu, Karate, and all of the various other martial arts. They have been shunned by the popular community because they don't seem practical, or don't yield immediate results.

Have you ever studied any Chinese internal martial arts? Taijiquan (Tai Chi), xingyiquan, tongbeiquan, bajiquan, qigong? These are great wushu styles that may not seem effective at first, but have immense fighting power lying beneath the exterior. The MMA athletes that I have sparred are usually confounded as to why I usually win in grappling matches, and why I can avoid so easily being taken to the ground. Even on the ground, the internal properties are immensely helpful. They are also great for health purposes.

There are some movies in the videos section here that have some really good internal masters showing the effectiveness of internal martial arts. Here's one I found surfing youtube one day of a older guy (Master Jung Min-Young) in Korea that has some really good internal development. He is demonstrating the concept of fajin, which means to issue power explosively.

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Re: unfair advantage?

Post  Sean Wang the Drunken Mas on Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:45 am

those moves look postively deadly. i could only imagine the affects of his attacks if he would use his full power. i am really quite new to wushu so aside from 'Drunken Boxing' i really havnt had much ledgitimate training accept from a few books or instructional videos. I imagine that the training necsesary for his style must have been a slow and trickling process but the outcome seems to be well worth the training, funny thing you show that video because i recently purchased the movie 'The Invincible" starring Bruce Lee in which a master in it demonstrates and almost teaches the snake,tiger and dragon styles. i realise that movies arnt nearly as far fetched as they are accused of.

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